» All editors, read please!

So, Tenshinhan pm'ed me, saying that it's unfair for us to wait for him since he is so busy IRL. What he suggested is that I choose another editor that will approve item builds along with me.

I didn't like that idea, 'cause it would be quite unfair for the rest of the editors. We are a team after all and my voice should not be louder than yours. "Manager" is just typical, I'm an editor too in my own perspective. So, what I thought is that from now on, whenever someone suggests an item build, ALL editors (myself included) will discuss about it and take a decision, possibly by votes if needed. The shoutbox can and should be used for that purpose, since it's visibile to us only.

Okay then, I'd like to hear your opinions and/or your ideas as well. Anyone?

^Agree with this change. I too think its the best and the most fair way to approve new item builds.

i think this is good, a voting system for approving builds would be nice.

Alright, I'm gonna notify all editors through PM. It seems we'll have to use a time limit per suggestion too since some of them could be inactive (judging from the last time they visited at least).

So, here's the oldest undiscussed build I could find, from couter_helix_axe.

// Earth Shaker
elseif i1=='Otch' then
set AIConsumeable=ClarityPotion
call AIBuy(it,0,CircletOfNobility,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,1,MantleOfIntelligence,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,2,NullTalismanRecipe,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,3,CircletOfNobility,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,4,MantleOfIntelligence,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,5,NullTalismanRecipe,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,6,CircletOfNobility,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,7,MantleOfIntelligence,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,8,NullTalismanRecipe,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,6,BootsOfSpeed,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,7,KelensDagger,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,8,EnergyBooster,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,9,RingOfProtection,ArcaneRingRecipe,-1,NullTalisman,BootsOfSpeed,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,11,BootsOfTravelRecipe,-1,-1,NullTalisman,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,13,PointBooster,-1,-1,NullTalisman,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,14,EnergyBooster,-1,-1,NullTalisman,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,15,VitalityBooster,-1,-1,NullTalisman,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,16,VoidStone,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,17,RingOfHealth,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,18,VoidStone,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,19,RingOfHealth,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,20,UltimateOrb,-1,-1,NullTalisman,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,21,LinkensSphereRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,22,MesserschmidtsReaver,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,23,VitalityBooster,HeartOfTarrasqueRecipe,-1,LinkensSphere,BootsOfTravel,-1,false)

Reminding that the current ES build is 2 Bracers - Boots - Eul - Travel - Dagger - Bloodstone - Linken's - Heart.

Granted that Earthshaker knows how to use Dagger properly (it was in lazyfiend's builds, right?), I prefer couter_helix_axe's build to the current one. Opinions?

I have to say that ES is one of the best working AI's, so I see no reason to change it the build.

At least that's my findings. How do you do to choose game-mode/AI heroes from observer-mode?

Anyway, about this build, I don't like the Arcane Ring, it feels so late, since he already got 3 nulls by then.

I'd have the build get a voidstone, then BoT, then continue with Bloodstone/Guinsoo/linkens.

if we're talking strictly AS IS, i like the current build better.

if i were to change C_H_A's build, i would either put arcane before dagger, or remove arcane and put the first pers right after dagger (and buy something elses later on). i might also change a null (or two) to bracer(s).

Would replacing 3 nulls with 2 bracers and getting arcane before dagger make it better then?

Another idea would be to keep the 3 nulls but replace arcane ring with bottle (and get it before dagger).

This post has been edited by Overflow_GR on Oct 10 2008, 08:41 PM

I personally don't like Bottle, the AIs aren't coherent in their handling with it, so if you absolutely want an Arcane, I'd want the bracer-arcane way. But pref. not at all.

Uh, I missed the train on this one.

Personally I think it might be helpful (from a time perspective) to maybe designate specific hero builds to specific editors in the future. While I definitely encourage everyone to have a say in everything, if we take the time to have everybody chime in and review all the builds, it will take quite a while for builds to be approved (e.g. the secondary -nn builds, which I took without waiting for approval...how long would that take in the current format?)

My suggestion (for the future, anyway) would be for you guys to each take ownership over a set of heroes (maybe each of you having a dedicated thread for your set of heroes) where you guys can comment and revise on each others' builds before finalising builds for implementation. This allows a) a faster rate of progress, b) a sense of direct ownership over certain heroes (yay!), and c) the ability to comment quickly and efficiently on builds implemented by everybody.

Of course, at the moment there's no time constraint, as I'm the current bottleneck in the whole process right now. But in the future, it may be something to consider.

In the meantime, keep up the great work. You guys have helped me immeasurably since setting this all up, so thanks again for your efforts!

This post has been edited by BuffMePlz on Oct 10 2008, 09:42 PM

What BMP is saying makes sense, but there are some problems doing that. The first problem is that I have no idea how many editors are currently active. I know there's me, Sliche, Strikur, Duvon and c_h_a, as well as Tenshinhan who is busy IRL. I have pm'ed the rest, but I still have no replies from them.

The second problem is that none of us has a dedicated schedule and I don't expect anybody to make one. We just come here when we got spare time. In short; we are quite unorganized and there's little we can do about that.

The question then is; How are we gonna split the heroes to 5 (or 6, counting Tenshinhan) persons that have unsteady online times? There's 93 heroes. Maybe we should each pick 18 (or 15) heroes and the remaining 3 are picked by whoever wants them?

Well probably this way : 1 Tavern = 1 Editor. The problem is we are a bit busy in RL for this.

Well I figured everyone could just say YES or NO without discussing each build in-depth. If there's too much disagreement over a specific build, THEN discuss.

Btw. who is c_h_a?

couter_helix_axe for short. A simple yes or no procedure would be indeed faster, but if we discuss each hero in depth, it means that we will not have to deal with its build for a very long time.

Back to ES discussion. The main reasons that I want ES to have Arcane Ring is that very few AI heroes get it and that it fits him a lot. AI cannot adapt its item build to each game like humans can, so we need to make builds that work in most situations, and I believe Arcane Ring can do that for ES.

So, does this build look better?

// Earth Shaker
elseif i1=='Otch' then
set AIConsumeable=ClarityPotion
call AIBuy(it,0,CircletOfNobility,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,1,GauntletsOfStrength,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,2,CircletOfNobility,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,3,GauntletsOfStrength,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,4,BootsOfSpeed,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,5,EnergyBooster,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,6,BracerRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfSpeed,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,7,RingOfProtection,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,8,ArcaneRingRecipe,-1,-1,Bracer,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,9,BracerRecipe,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,10,KelensDagger,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,11,PointBooster,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,12,BootsOfTravelRecipe,-1,-1,Bracer,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,13,EnergyBooster,-1,-1,Bracer,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,14,VitalityBooster,-1,-1,Bracer,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,15,VoidStone,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,16,RingOfHealth,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,17,VoidStone,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,18,RingOfHealth,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,19,UltimateOrb,-1,-1,Bracer,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,20,LinkensSphereRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,21,MesserschmidtsReaver,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,22,VitalityBooster,-1,-1,ArcaneRing,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,23,HeartOfTarrasqueRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,24,UltimateOrb,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,25,VoidStone,MysticStaff,-1,HeartOfTarrasque,LinkensSphere,-1,false)

This post has been edited by Overflow_GR on Oct 12 2008, 02:45 AM

Feels good.

Though I'd want to change the arcane-ring as the final thing in the build, linkens+bloodstone is reg.

add

call AIBuy(it,23,VoidStone,-1,-1,ArcaneRing,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,24,UltimateOrb,MysticStaff,-1,HeartOfTarrasque,LinkensSphere,-1,false)

or

call AIBuy(it,23,StaffOfWizardry,-1,-1,ArcaneRing,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,24,BladesOfAttack,DagonRecipe,DagonRecipe,HeartOfTarrasque,LinkensSphere,BootsOfTravel,false)
call AIBuy(it,25,DagonRecipe,DagonRecipe,DagonRecipe,HeartOfTarrasque,LinkensSphere,BootsOfTravel,false)

Recieved PM, and I agree with this new system. Sorry for not replying earlier, I just didn't visit this forum.

OnTopic: I agree with Arcane, it is just core for ES.
2 bracers, arcane, dagger . . . This is a must! Next should be as you want (or as was!)

The arcane ring timing is much better this time.

I feel replacing arcane at the end would be good, at this point he has lots of mana+regen from BS+Linkens. I would like to replace it with Shiva's, but since it's not working atm i think dagon is a good alternative.

Suggested ending:

call AIBuy(it,20,LinkensSphereRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,21,VitalityBooster,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,22,MesserschmidtsReaver,-1,-1,ArcaneRing,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,23,HeartOfTarrasqueRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,24,StaffOfWizardry,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,25,BladesOfAttack,DagonRecipe,-1,BootsOfTravel,LinkensSphere,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,26,DagonRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,27,DagonRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,28,DagonRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,29,DagonRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)

Suggested ES item build is good, just replace Arcane Ring with something more usefull for late game. I think Guinsoo would be better than Dagon because ES AI won't have enough time in late game to get it upgraded 5 times.

+1 to this. Guinsoo >> Dagon!

First of all, welcome back cp6uja.

Second of all, I love Guinsoo's, it's always strong at any stage on any hero. I wish I could add Shiva's, but it's clearly not working for AI, and a late Dagon is not gonna do much even if fully upgraded.

So yeah, added Duvon's lines to mine. If you agree to it, post Yes in the shoutbox, otherwise post No in it. After all editors have said their opinion or 3 days have passed, I'll count the "votes" and see.

Sell the ring earlier to make room for vitality booster and put heart recipe in next line. 250hp is going to do more for him than hanging onto arcane ring. Also get ultimate orb instead of void stone as first guinsoo piece. The HP is better than mana regen at this point.

call AIBuy(it,22,VitalityBooster,-1,-1,ArcaneRing,-1,-1,true)
call AIBuy(it,23,HeartOfTarrasqueRecipe,-1,-1,BootsOfTravel,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,24,UltimateOrb,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,false)
call AIBuy(it,25,VoidStone,MysticStaff,-1,HeartOfTarrasque,LinkensSphere,-1,false)